Edward Ruthledge (American, 7177 GRT, built 1942), Something needs to carry the Chinooks and Wessexes after all. In the unlikely event of the Ark royal being serviceable ,theres a fairly good chance that the Argentineans would have sunk her. blakes 6 inch gun used in ngs role would have been invaluable, plus she had an armoured hull. Exercise Joint Warrior is the largest military exercise in Europe, bringing together the Royal Navy, the Royal Air Force and the British Army, as well as forces from other nations. Learn about the different types of accommodation available through the Royal Navy and find an option that meets your needs. Find out how you can cope with the challenges of deployment using an array of support services, tools and initiatives. IIRC there were occasions where 25 de Mayo was unable to conduct operations due to the weather/sea state. Surtees, RNR), HMS Inchmarnock (T/Lt. Learn more about the Royal Navys priorities and what we do day-to-day. From the Vanguard-class ballistic submarine to the formidable HMS Queen Elizabeth aircraft carrier, our equipment is among the best in the world. G.H. Gannets would have made a difference, especially early in the air war. Port View. Benalbanach (British, 7153 GRT, built 1940), failure to learn from the past, increases the chances of those mistakes happening again, the two world wars and the fact that submarines could have starved the u.k into submission, the same threat applies today. Firth, MVO, RN) and RHS Vasilissa Olga (Lt.Cdr. Now add in the Phantom's ability to go supersonic and the additional range of the SkyFlash. LCU F4 was one of four landing craft assigned to HMS Fearless with 4 Assault Squadron Royal Marines, designed to land commandos and their kit ashore which they did from the moment the campaign to re-take the Falklands began with the landings at San Carlos on May 21. Ocean Volga (British, 7174 GRT, built 1942), Gelling, DSC, RD, RNR). Jauncey, RN), HMS Pozarica (Capt.(Retd.) This is seen in the case of the Centaur class aircraft carrier HMS Hermes which did see successful action in the Falklands, and it could arguably be the case, that its very survival along with the HMS Invincible was the reason the War in the Falklands was victorious for the British. L.S. Mooltan, Historically, the Task Force had a patchy and perilous early warning systems. A small group from HMS Forth the patrol ship which serves as the islands constant guardian and Mount Pleasant gathered at Hookers Point outside the capital Stanley and the imposing monument of Welsh granite erected to HMS 2nd Division; Derwentdale, Reina del Pacifico and Tegelberg. The landing ships Dewdale and Ennerdale were also part of the convoy. A. Stirling, RNR) and HMS Shiant (T/Lt. They were manned by Royal Naval personnel, mainly from 1st MCM Squadron based at Rosyth. She sank on the 10th May 1982. HMS Antrim, providing air defence for the troopship Canberra, had been struck by two Argentinian bombs which failed to explode. CATOBAR aircraft like the Phantom can only operate if the deck is pitching a few degrees. The real bit of what if history (if you like a we bit of fantasy) would be what would have happened if we had not cancelled the new carrier. Tiba and Llangibby Castle, A.H.T. Anyway, there's an alternate history timeline on this already (sorta). L.J.S. Monarch of Bermuda, G.C.P. Wilkinson, RN) and the corvette HMS Samphire (with her repairs completed) departed Gibraltar to join convoy KMS A1. Manchester Port (British, 7071 GRT, built 1935), On assembly off Oversay on the 27th the convoy was escorted by the light cruiser HMS Sheffield (Capt. G.L.D. 2,744 t, used as casualty ferries (hospital ships). Turner, RN) made contact with the force and the ships were guided to their positions for the landings. B.J. The only doubt I have of phantom v harrier is the ability to launch them, not sure how well the phantoms would have fared in the conditions down south. The headquarters ship HMS Bulolo and the landing ships HMS Karanja, HMS Keren, HMS Royal Scotsman, HMS Royal Ulsterman and Ulster Monarch and the attack transports USS Samuel North, RN), HMS Zetland (Lt. J.V. Havildar, H.F. Nash, RN), destroyer HMS Vansittart (Lt.Cdr. G.N. Zebulon B. Vance (American, 7176 GRT, built 1942). The Harriers would provide local air defence due it short legs. Protecting our nations interests: guardian, diplomat and humanitarian force for good. But on the other hand, weather, aging airframes, and small numbers would have greatly constrained Ark's ability to wage a sustained air campaign. The headquarters ship HMS Largs and the landing ships HMS Glengyle, HMS Princess Beatrix and HMS Queen Emma were also part of the convoy. the boiler explosion that had prompted bulwarks retirement had never been even surveyed. They were escorted by the light cruiser HMS Aurora, destroyer HMS Wivern, corvettes HMS Gardenia, HMS Vetch and the motor launch HMS HDML 1139. See high resolution scans for details. Otranto, Nieuw Zeeland (British, 11069 GRT, built 1928), Almaack, HMS Rhyl was a Rothesay-class or Type 12I anti-submarine frigate of the Royal Navy, launched by Lady Macmillan on 23 February 1959 and commissioned in October 1960. Not only the AEW Gannet would have make a diference, the Ark Royal Radar itsel was far more capable for detecting at long range that any other ship at the Falkands. I do think that optically whether the Ark was a basket case or not, the Argentines may have thought twice about invading if we had the capacity to send thee carriers down there, one of them with fast jets like the Phantom. As British aviation historian Rowland White has argued: "In the end it was, as it so often is, more a numbers game than anything. HMS Plymouth was a Royal Navy Rothesay -class frigate. Heimer, USCG) and USS Thomas Stone (Capt. All forces sailed on 10 June to be off Pantellaria on 11 June 1944. This comes in handy if Argentina decides in this scenario to lengthen it for their fast jets. Derbyshire (British, 11660 GRT, built 1935), But six weeks is a very long time to keep just twelve Phantoms and their crews flying without any possibility of reinforcement or replacement. I think yes, as I find it coincidental that Ark was decommissioned in Dec 1979 and scrapping began in 1980 followed by the invasion in 1982. Same problems with the QE2 class other than the fact that they are brand new. Condition: Fine image. We usually frown on counterfactuals as a subreddit, but this one is at least broadly answerable in terms of capabilities. Please note that we're still working on this section and that we only list Commanding Officers for the duration of the Second World War. Landing Craft (Utility) Foxtrot Four was the last Royal Navy vessel lost in the six-week war in the South Atlantic, attacked on the same day June 8 as the more well-known tragedy of Sir Galahad and Sir Tristram and the 200 casualties they suffered when bombed. Johns, RN), HMS Antelope (Lt.Cdr. Salacia, They were escorted by the escort destroyers HMS Lamerton (Lt.Cdr. Leinster (British, 4302 GRT, built 1937) T.E. Returned 20 Apr 1978. Retaining HMS Ark Royal,anAudaciousclass aircraft carrier,would have been beneficial in the Falklands War and perhaps even prevented it. Harper, RNR), HMS Hoy (T/Lt. JavaScript seems to be disabled in your browser. Ocean Viceroy, Her government did not keep an eye on the situation and sent misleading signals (Withdrawal of the Endurance) that led the Argentines to think there would be no serious response to an invasion. Can you expand on this? Around 1900A/7, The remainder of convoy KMF A1 split into two sections, one for ' A Sector ' (Apple Sector) and one for ' B Sector ' (Beer Sector). Whether its dealing with the demands of deployment or the rigours of relocation, we make sure that the family and friends of Naval Service personnel have all the help, guidance and support they need, every day. On paper, that's a potent mix of capabilities. Indeed AV, it was Callahans decision to withdraw the SSN patrol from the South Atlantic in 1977 that really got the Argentines convinced we had lost interest in our South Atlantic territories. Operating them off Atlantic Conveyor would be hilarious but probably not workable in the slightest. I heard that the the yanks were impressed by the Bucks at Red Flag. Modern day list of ships supposedly lost by the British in the Falklands War, still showing Invincible and Hermes as considered or possibly sunk or damaged the old myths die hard: Here a more recent Argentine photograph from the press shows an impressive attack against HMS Penelope with the caption A greeting to your Queen: 2014-2021 UK Defence Journal, all rights reserved. Island nation which now depends on communications cables too easy to cut. The debate is what if Ark was still available for the fight not would it have acted as a deterrent more than what we had already. Keeping her was not a choice that could have been made, just a matter of how long the last of her spare parts (most recycled from Eagle) would keep working. If Ark Royal went with either Hermes or Invincible, the air group would be bigger and more capable: Ark royal typically carried 26ish buccs and phantoms. Lycaon, Had there been a conventional carrier down there, such as Ark Royal, we would have been out of limits a lot of the time. They also tried Bulwark and pretty much the same answer. So nothing really changes then, with wholesale disposal of assets only to discover they are needed just a few years later. But in the Royal Marines and Royal Navys Amphibious Warfare community, the loss of the 30-metre-long craft, with four Marines and two Sailors, resonates to this day. During its history, while HMS Ark Royal underwent many refits and innovations, it did suffer from technical issues due to the age of the vessel as it was built in 1944. A.A. Martin, DSC, RD, RNR), HMS Rhyl (Cdr. Nuclear submarines lurking off the Argentine coast could provide a 45 minute alert of an incoming raid. Therefore its likely that it would have never have crossed the Airforce mind to deploy theirs on ships. Forth then several more miles out to sea to the spot where the landing craft was last seen in 1982 following valiant efforts to salvage her, and the Still was piped in memory. Island nation that operates a just in time supply chain for just about everything. Shaw, RNR) and HMS Felixstowe (T/Lt. J.B.G. P.G. Ark Royal would have been a great asset in 82,with the benefit of hindsight. J.G.Y. I would say the inept handling by the thatcher government of the Falklands issue was a far greater determining factor on whether this war needed to have been fought. Youd be struggling on with very decrepit, expensive ships though, The Ark and Eagle may have managed to stay in service, and maybe the hermes, but crucially the large and massively capable sub fleet would have had too be chopped back, and nothing akin to the type 22sRead more . Moffatt, RNR), HMS Othello (T/Lt. 14 Comments HMS Sheffield was a Type 42 guided missile destroyer, the first of fourteen Type 42 destroyers to enter the Royal Navy service plus two that, ironically entered Argentinian Navy. Alphard, She was rebuilt several times You can help improve our commands section Group II; HMS Glengyle, Monarch of Bermuda, Llangibby Castle, Clan Mactaggart and Salacia. HMS Largs, landing ships, landing craft and escorts were then ordered to proceed to Sousse. W.R.K. By contrast, STOVL aircraft like the Sea Harrier are far more tolerant of pitching deck conditions, since they can land near the center of the ship, where the see-saw effect is the mildest. It would have changed were the weaknesses lay. Of course, the capability of ship aside, the very fact of their existence in your Armoury, has a deterrent value all of its own. Its not as straightforward as many people make out. Take the helos off and you might get a few more Phantoms on and as the air threat is going to be the issue here and the Phantoms can also do ground attack, the Buccs may well lose a couple to get the fighter number up. Exceller, To have been available in 1982 they would have had to put here in refit in 79 till end of 81, which would have been difficult maintaining the squadrons expertise launching/recovering aircraft. Unless this about lessons we shouldnt forget this is just another counter factual. C.R. The bias is obvious. Scary times where had walking around on them. Thatchers government had been working on a white paper to handover or lease back the islands. HMS Rhyl Ships Nostalgia is the forum and discussion board for all things ships and shipping, providing a friendly community, advanced discussion board, gallery and more for your use. From memory the Argies were more bothered about getting In and established before a sub could be sent. Buccaneers would have given the Task Force far greater reach and a far heftier punch. The following morning Foxtrot 4 was nowhere to be seen. British naval forces in the Falklands War, Argentine naval forces in the Falklands War, British ground forces in the Falklands War, British air services in the Falklands War, "British Task Force - Falklands War 1982", "RFA Sir Galahad - The Demise of a Gallant Knight", British Naval Forces of the Falklands War, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=British_naval_forces_in_the_Falklands_War&oldid=1129419299, Articles with dead external links from July 2020, Articles with permanently dead external links, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0. From convoy KMS A1 the following ships were assigned to ' A Sector '; Dewdale, Lalande, Manchester Port, Ocean Viceroy and Ocean Wanderer. Rear-Admiral McGregor transferred his flag to HMS Tartar. With only three or four Gannets, a single accident or maintenence crisis would have had an outsized effect the Gannet force's operations. Ede, DSO, RN), HMS Stornoway (T/A/Lt.Cdr. William Wirt and Royal Navy personnel may come from all walks of life, but they are united by one thing: a commitment to protecting our nations interests, no matter what. All five minesweepers were involved in clearing two minefields off Port Stanley. William M. Wirt (American, 7191 GRT, built 1942) and Letitia, Saner minds prevailed and they didnt reactivate any of them. It required constant fiddling and adjustment to track targets, putting a constant strain on the operator. A.F. Harcourt, CBE, RN), escort carrier HMS Biter (Capt. They bomb stuff and do it well. Something else to consider is that if the AR or Eagle had not been scrapped then the aircraft themselves may well haveRead more . The ship was built by Vickers-Armstrongs in Newcastle Upon Tyne and named after the Welsh county of Glamorgan.. She was launched on 9 July 1964, and was delivered to the Royal Navy two years later. Glenfinlas (British, 7479 GRT, built 1917), The turn had prevented the missile from striking the ship's side perpendicularly and penetrating; instead, it hit the deck The blast travelled forwards and down, and the missile body, still travelling forwards, penetrated the hangar door, causing the ship's fully fuelled and armed On the following day, repairs were made at sea and, after the Argentinian surrender on 14 June, more extensive repairs were undertaken in the sheltered bay of A Memorial was erected in 2011 in memory of the ship and the lost crew at Hookers Point outside Stanley.Her last active deployment for the Royal Navy was in 1983/4 and she was sent on the Armilla Patrol with MoD release detailing date and position of sinking, 25 July 2008 This was a Rothesay class anti-submarine frigate built at Portsmouth and completed in 1960. Cooper, RNVR) and the motor launches ML 238, ML 273, ML 283, ML 295, ML 307, ML 336, ML 338, ML 444 departed Gibraltar to join convoy KMS A1. Edward Rutledge, Churchill, RN) and HMS Wrestler (Lt. R.W.B.